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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.18 04:11:00 -
[1]
well stealth bombers are still worthless. Cruise missiles dont seem to catch any small ships. Cruisers should tank a stealth bomber.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.19 05:05:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: MalVortex
A stealth bomber with torpedos would be completley worthless. You woudn't alpha anything, you'd be in sub 20km range at max, and your DPS would be only a minor improvement.
The signature radius bonus to cruise makes SBs an equal match for intys - a roll they long have been denied. Having a cloaking, insta-locking anti-frigate isn't a bad roll now that they can engage interceptors due to the new missile damage formula.
I agree, Torpedos would be terrible. You have to fire really really close to the target. Meaning you're going to be ripped apart.
Citadel Torpedoes I find interesting. Citadel Torpedoes can fly 100km. With 3 citadel torp launchers you are going to hit only about 300dps with good skills. The explosion velocity is about 150m/s which means just about everything is fast enough to avoid lots of dmg. adjusting the cruise missile bonuses on the stealth bombers so that you dont have extra dmg but rather explosion velocity and such.
Would be a much more reasonable stealth bomber.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.19 11:44:00 -
[3]
Not sure what changed... but my nemesis now was doing about 30dmg per cruise missile on an assault ship.
Stealth bomber is so utterly incapable of deal out dmg to anything it's ridiculous.
Cruiser and larger is basically the only ships I can deal any real damage to and only the newbiest of cruisers are going to die to a stealth bomber.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 08:19:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Nobody was complaining about missile damage pre-speed-nerf. Maintaining current TQ performance must be the goal here.
Nobody in missions had mwds going 10-40km/s but it's amazing how many of these nerfs have directly impacted missions.
The people who were in low sec or 0.0 doing missions before are going to scream in anger and leave to high sec pretty quick. The low sec missions take significant time as it is... add 20% less speed into it and you're having problems.
Quote:
1) Missile damage is already pre-nerfed to account for lack of tracking. Yes, current TQ missiles will do full damage to same-size targets most of the time. This is already accounted for by the fact that a missile ship has considerably lower dps than a similar gunboat.
This technically hasnt been true for quite a few months. Torps hit some real big dps.
Quote:
3) Missile ships are long-range ships. Most missile ships are designed to fight from long range,
torps, hams, rockets?
Quote:
barrage is hardly high damage. also torps hit battleships for 75% max damage.
I just tried a torp raven vs maelstrom. No painter... and it was pretty sad. The explosion radius really isnt a problem anyway. It's the velocity. the maelstrom is going fast enough to miss significant amounts of the torp damage. Without any ab or anything.
I think you might be balancing this formula based on people with really good skills rather then mediocre.
Hell I can tell you right now there's some people here using tech 2 missiles and commenting on this balancing... even though tech 2 missiles havent changed or at least it has been said they havent been.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 08:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Megan Maynard
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Edited by: Jason Edwards on 19/10/2008 12:06:23
Not sure what changed... but my nemesis now was doing about 30dmg per cruise missile on an assault ship.
Stealth bomber is so utterly incapable of deal out dmg to anything it's ridiculous.
Cruiser and larger is basically the only ships I can deal any real damage to and only the newbiest of cruisers are going to die to a stealth bomber.
Wow stealth bomber cant even effectively kill medium drones. Sigghh.
Rigged with precisions hit my hyena pretty well going ~3500 m/s. (Don't get me started on that ship.)
These have 84m/s explosion velocity.
Could you explain to me how they got about 4200% explosion velocity bonus. Rigs account for 40% or so. Skills lets say some wacky 100%. So where is the other 4000%?
Oh right you tested t2 ammo when it hadnt been changed.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 10:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Murina
Cruise are way overpowered compared to other systems especially cos they can be fitted to bombers that also now need seriously nerfing.
truly this isnt even remotely true.
The only thing that doesnt make sense is T2 cruises dont require t2 heavys and lights first. Just like rails for example.
The explosion radius change on cruises isnt that bad in terms of dealing damage. Going from 500m/s explosion velocity down to <100m/s is crazy. After skills I suspect that you basically cant hit anything that is going faster then what? 150m/s-200m/s? Even with the speed nerf... the base speed of cruisers is close to 200m/s
I've been jacking around in my stealth bomber on sisi. The only things I can seemingly deal damage to were assorted battleships... which I deal 150ish dmg when it ought to be much closer to 600.
Or cruisers; I nearly got a kill on an osprey. I did kill 1 thorax. but that's basically it.
and you propose SERIOUS NERFING. Wow stealth bombers literally are incapable of killing anything then.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 12:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 20/10/2008 11:22:35
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Murina
Cruise are way overpowered compared to other systems especially cos they can be fitted to bombers that also now need seriously nerfing.
truly this isnt even remotely true.
Stealth bomber vs a 5kms mwding taranis and 2kms with afterburner
PROPULSION..................AB.........MWD.....STATIONARY
T1 CRUISE WRAITH.......20.7...........36.9.............138.2
T2 CRUISE WRAITH.......51.7...........74.3.............119.8
WRAITH FURY................8.3.......TO SLOW...........159.0
So at 74.3 dmg per cruise against a high speed mwd ceptor or 51.7 afterburner x 3 launchers and taking into consideration the 50% natural shield resists the ceptor had, dmg-range seems a little high tbh.
Wow... Lets just look at that original post.
Posted - 2008.10.18 19:10:00
CCP Nozh says @ Posted - 2008.10.18 18:59:00
Quote:
Haven't taken a proper look at t2 missiles yet. We're getting T1 sorted first.
Literally this analysis is given 11 minutes after ccp nozh says t2 missiles hadnt been touched.
As a note t2 missiles have been nerfed now; identical as t1 varient.
Furthermore this only goes to prove further that it's utter crap... This person has t2 cruise. Meaning pretty damn good skills in missiles. If t2 unnerfed missiles arent even doing enough damage... remember stealth bomber is supposed to be a big alpha which destroys frigates easily. 2500ish dmg.. where
Or else the whole idea behind the stealth bomber is lost because the dps on the stealth bomber is sad. Alpha damage is what you want. Even in the best of situation for interceptors and such... 1st volley ought to leave the interceptor deep into structure or dead. That's it. But it isnt like that at all.
For a stealth bomber to kill an interceptor... it takes minutes. Interceptor is on you and has killed you long before.
Stealth bomber thusly has absolutely no chance. Thusly needs to be boosted or taken out of the role.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Murina
Edited by: Murina on 20/10/2008 13:22:30
Originally by: Jason Edwards
remember stealth bomber is supposed to be a big alpha which destroys frigates easily. 2500ish dmg.. where
2500 alpha missile dmg from a frig against a interceptor are you drunk?.
With what a rof of about 3-5 seconds?.
800ish dps from a frig against the fastest pvp ship with the smallest sig radius in the game?.
Stop posting pls.
This proves you know nothing about the topic you are even talking about. With top notch skills cruise rof is 11seconds assuming no officer mods and such.
Considering the papermache make of the stealth bombers... you shouldnt use rigs. Meaning the stealth bombers get only about 200-250dps.
Stop posting murina.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:14:00 -
[9]
So Jaguar was going 350ish.
22:59:04 Combat Your Cataclysm Cruise Missile hits ***************************(Jaguar), doing 36.8 damage.
That's not going to kill anything.
23:02:32 Combat Your Cataclysm Cruise Missile hits *********(Abaddon), doing 430.8 damage.
If Stealth bombers can only deal damage to battleships. We need to drop cruise missiles and be given citadels or something new.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:52:00 -
[10]
23:46:33 Combat Your Cataclysm Cruise Missile hits ********(Deimos), doing 575.2 damage.
You see that's much better... but severely lacking it capability.
If stealth bombers only perform like they should against big ships. Nobody will use stealth bombers because they can do much better.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
23:46:33 Combat Your Cataclysm Cruise Missile hits ********(Deimos), doing 575.2 damage.
You see that's much better... but severely lacking it capability.
If stealth bombers only perform like they should against big ships. Nobody will use stealth bombers because they can do much better.
I'd also like to point out...
The changes are pretty decent; for ravens and such.
Terrible for stealth bombers.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dwindlehop
Perhaps the stealth bomber bonus is not working as intended with the new missile math?
Before cruise missiles never hit anything if it was speed tanked.
Explosion velocity on tq is 500m/s Which after skills allows for pretty good speed.
Now the explosion velocity is 55m/s. That means just about everything even after skills has enough speed to avoid pretty much all the damage. The cov-op skill most people have at level 4... including me. Only provides 66% reduction + skills brings explosion radius down to <50m meaning most frigates easily killed; assuming no missile kiting. Which this speed nerf is supposed to be changing.
Such a low explosion velocity destroys the stealth bomber significantly.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.21 03:30:00 -
[13]
03:02:10 Combat Your Cataclysm Cruise Missile hits *********(Malediction), doing 13.6 damage.
if the speed nerf is meant to bring intys and stuff down to where you can deal damage. You would think that it would be possible.
This is with explosion velocity up to 69m/s but higher DR.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.10.22 09:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: lecrotta
0-249 ( every range just like cruise can) ffs did you forget wtf we were talking about in your haste to rant on?.
PS: I checked, even at non mwd speed a mega cannot hit even with t1 ammo.
By the time the cruise reach out to 249km... IF the raven could even target that far... the inty or whatever can move it and warp off or start moving somewhere. Just making the whole situation silly.
The raven cant perform at that range. It just theoretically could.
Now say MEgathron could have spike and t2 425mm all level 5 skills. This gives you 200km optimal of instant damage. 30km falloff. So theoretically a megathron can deal instant damage further then the raven.
So basically if you are to say cruise missiles are overpowered because of the range... that's just silly.
Furthermore... they really do need the range. A target can be going 1km/s and the cruise missiles take 30 seconds to arrive. In that 30 seconds... the target moved an additional 30km meaning the cruise missiles need even longer to hit.
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"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?" |
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